I SHOULD HAVE KNOWN BETTER.
You can’t write just one article about what Christians should do with evil in the world. No matter what you say, you are going to get follow-up questions.
Here’s the follow-up question to Wednesday’s article, Burned alive: What to do about evil?
It comes from a friend of mine, Joe Kumor.
I have struggled with the “Christianity vs Pacifism” issue for a while as a former Army infantryman in Iraq, a policeman here in the States, and a seminary graduate.
There are many scenarios that would normally invoke violence, especially in protecting people, that some educated Christian leaders tell me a Christian should not participate in. I think that if a father is morally right in protecting his family in his house, a Christian can be a policeman and then a soldier. Is that “Christian” thinking? I have heard it both ways and would like your opinion.
I really like your “sheepdogs follow the Shepherd” line [in a comment box to another reader] and think it is helpful in this discussion. I am thinking each person has to be able to live with himself, but where is God in this? Basically, is God ok with some violence?
Heck no.
As the apostle Paul might say, I am not necessarily getting that answer from God himself. On Mount Sinai, God spoke with a rumble – as it’s reported in the Bible. But in my experience, God speaks with a mumble. Not very loud, if at all. And usually not at all. If you don’t count the Holy Spirit. And you probably should. Still, sometimes it’s hard to tell the Holy Spirit from what Mom taught me in kindergarten.
I’m getting the “Heck no” from two instant sources – stuff I know right off the top of my head.
- I am not okay with violence. So I presume that the God who made me is not okay with violence. Any violence. I’m not okay with it. It makes me nervous. And sad. And angry.
- God is not okay with divorce. “‘I hate divorce!’ says the Lord” (Malachi 2:16). If God is not okay with breaking someone’s heart, I presume he is not okay with breaking someone’s nose. Ever. Especially in a rose garden.
I suspect the real question Joe wants answered is this, “Is God okay with using violence to stop violence?”
Here’s what I think. No one should care what I think. Think for yourself. God didn’t give me a brain to think for you. He gave me a brain to think for me. He gave you a brain to think for you.
Christian soldiers, cops, and people working in retail need to decide for themselves if and when the best course of action is to punch someone’s teeth into next Tuesday.
If you do that, God is not going to be okay with it. He is not going to like it at all. I’m pretty sure of that. But not entirely. I may have been sure before I had kids.
How about we take a lesson from the Roman Catholics. They have an insightful way of looking at abortion when the life of the child threatens the life of the mother. They teach that abortion in that case is good because it saves a life but it’s bad because it takes a life.
I wonder if that’s how God looks at us when we kill people to protect others.
Someone in the Middle East starts cutting off heads like they grow on trees.
So we stop them. Permanently.
We apparently don’t have the technology to stun them, arrest them, and teach them good manners. But we do have the technology to return them to the dust from which they came.
God is not okay with that, I can’t believe.
But given the type of creatures we are at the moment – selfish, intolerant, and fearful – perhaps he understands that sometimes the only choice we have left is whether to stand and fight or lay down and die.
If I saw my kids treating each other like that, I would want something better for them. And if I could I would send Someone to tell them so.
“Treat others just as you want to be treated” (Luke 6:31).
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God definitely has a place for violence — and even outright genocide — as 1 Samuel 15:3 and similar verses and commands clearly show. Though he definitely has a context for it.
This is a hard question for me — I find the situation helpless and hopeless. Looking at History (Assyria, Babylon, Syria, Israel, etc.) the evil conflict keeps on going — now an extreme Islamic violence. I am not optimistic either way (violence or no violence) — my only hope is in the Lord. I have never seen the world this crazy before!!!!
Crazy, indeed. I can say Amen to that.
You know, Steve, a lot of scholars would question that. They would argue that the anonymous writers or editors of the Old Testament books reporting God’s link to genocide and other seemingly evil acts of violence got their reporting wrong. Or perhaps they presumed God was behind it because he’s the Boss of Everything and he let it happen.
Those scholars, many of them, would say God would not like being linked to some of the stuff the Bible writers blame him for.
I know. That calls into question the extent to which we should trust the reporting in the Bibles we hold in our hands.
We want to have what some tradition-minded scholars call a “high view of Scripture.” But we also want to have a high view of God.
That’s the tension for some Christian students of God and the Bible.
Kudos to you, Steve, for these last two articles. I have nothing more to add to your insights. I’m just impressed with your handling of these complex issues that we wish were concrete, either black or white, but obviously arent. Thanks for giving us something to chew on!
Thanks, Brad. For me, there are a zillion ways to say, “I don’t know.” But that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t think about those “I don’t know” problems.
You were right on with your presumption of my real question of the morality of using violence to stop violence. I agree that any violence is frowned upon by God, I really do. I also believe that somewhere in all of those verses talking about justice for the oppressed and helping the orphans and widows there is a window of opportunity to bring the hurt to the oppressors in a controlled manner and as the very last option. However, I hate to think it was my carnal nature rising up in a fury and pray that any action I took in Iraq and as a cop was indeed done in a way that was without rage or hate, but in some kind of love for the people who could not defend themselves.
I appreciate your honesty and thoughtfulness in dealing with topics that are full of grey areas. They are tough to cover in such a short space and you do a great job!
Joe, I wouldn’t say it’s impossible to blow someone’s head off their shoulders in love during a battle. It probably is. What I’m saying is that whether it is done in love or in hate, I would find it hard to believe that God would be okay with that. I think he wants better from his creation. So I’m not saying it’s wrong to be a soldier or a cop. I’m saying that I believe it must make God sad that we need them. That’s what I’d guess God is not okay with. If I believed that as a cop or a soldier, I think it would affect the way I do my job. But again, I’m only speculating. I’ve never had to fight the kind of wars my dad did. And I’m grateful for that.